One of the things that has been a major bone of contention between my father and I has been the fact that I have never completed my education. He’s a fan of the classical education and I’ve always been something of a “screw that, I’ve better things to do” kind of person. Which, has been both good and bad. It’s bad in that I’ve never gotten my degree. It’s good in that by sheer force of will I’ve succeeded in a lot of what I’ve wanted to do.
Now, I have a family, job, etc. And frankly, wasting my time, and a whole crap load of money, for a bloody piece of paper seems way out of what I want to do. And, yet, at some point I want to put Dr. in front of my name. Just for the fun of it. Odds are it will actually decrease my pay, not increase it.
To make matters worse. I love the MIT opencoarseware program. I’ve been watching lectures on physics, computers, philosophy, and literature. Given by some of the best and brightest in the world. All over my computer. Let alone the lectures from KITP on theoretical physics.
Why should I pay to have some person give me a lecture, locally, on a subject I’m only partially interested in, and can probably teach myself, when I can watch someone who can kick the wholly mental ass out of me, give a lecture on something I’m interested in? Yes, I don’t get a piece of paper, but I find it very interesting and fun.
So, is it better to pay a thousands of dollars a quarter and get a piece of paper locally learning fun things like Java (don’t get me started on what a piece of crap language that is) or get a free, undocumented, education learning algorithms and programming techniques online from eggheads at Carnegie Mellon and MIT?
FYI. I’ve worked on multiple top 50 Supercomputers in the world and No, I don’t even have an Associates degree. It says something for unorthodox education and a driving will to succeed. And yet, I still have this stupid, screwed up need to get the societal acceptance of a piece of paper. Go figure.
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January 2, 2010 at 4:45 PM
Eileen
Having homeschooled my kid, I guess I have an opinion as to the value of the little piece of paper. My dad has the same opinion, as far as I know, and had it before homeschooling the kid was even thought of.
Opinion being: the piece of paper is something you pay lots of time and money for in order to learn the necessary information to do your future job(s) – IF you need to learn that in school. Most reasonably intelligent and curious folks can learn more efficiently elsewhere.
The piece of paper is also something you can show a prospective employer in order to clue them in that you may (or may not) have the necessary skills and knowledge to perform adequately in their employment. It is, in essence, a sort of letter of recommendation, one way of ‘getting your foot in the door’.
It also, I suppose, proves to oneself that one is capable of focusing and getting down to business and actually following through enough to finish something. Some of us are a bit iffy in that department, so the paper can be a reassuring reminder.
But that is about it. There are many, many ways of educating oneself, many opportunities to follow through and finish long term projects, and many (usually superior, and often less expensive) ways of gaining experience. And since you are a dad, you have proof that you are capable of finishing at least one sort of project…
If you are willing to pay a huge amount of money and (unpaid) time in order to have a couple initials after your name – well, I suppose it’s temporarily impressive at the high school reunion. But other than that, if it won’t improve your job/income prospects, it’s a waste of precious time, IMO.
And you are very intimate now with how short and precious time can be.
January 2, 2010 at 7:06 PM
Kate
My grandfather never went to college and he was very proud of what he did without that piece of paper (designed rear axles for American Motors). He never understood my dad going for the degrees or that in dad’s field you can’t go all the way without the papers (Mathematician). Gramps also thought the only reason to send girls to college is for the Mrs degree – good thing he didn’t live to see me finish college without the Mrs.
I’ve since gone back and sat in on a wide variety of classes and it is a whole lot more fun to pick and choose, rather than having to conform to some set list of requirements. I’ve sat in on everything from data structures to sea ice – and now I’m taking art classes, partly in response to someone I met through an online game. I’ve even used the data structures in my job – it’s really fun!
As for the PhD, I think it’s in part a badge of stubbornness. How stubborn are you?
January 2, 2010 at 7:44 PM
Dad
Well, the problem is that MANY employers, especially Universities who make thier livings selling those pieces of paper, think they are important if you ever what to go past a certain point. Yes, you’ve worked on the big irons, which is great. But, when a college grad will do your work for $40k a year, the bosses look at what you cost, and they don’t understand the reason for the big bucks. Realize, most senior IT managers got their experience (if they have any) prior to CMOS, terabits, etc.
There is a difference between a real education, which has nothing to do with a piece of paper, and a saleable data point on a resume.
I got my IT training same as you, working the edge of IBM hardware as it was being released (though I did software.) But I didn’t start working one on one with VP’s on a daily basis until I got some paper to back my experience. Depends on what you want to do in 20 years
I don’t downplay your experience, its great. Just, many employers don’t have the knowledge to understand it.
January 3, 2010 at 8:55 AM
icehawk55
I suppose if I’m going to chase a job in the sciences I should work on getting my degree. I chatted with a friend the other day and he’s interviewing for a really cool gig. Which made me think about what it would take to join him. Odds are, a bloody degree of some sort.
I’ll be here for a few years at least, so I might as well take some BS classes and get em out of the way while I can. That way I can take some interesting ones later.
Golly, I can’t wait to learn basic web design, or java programming, or intro to the internet.
Kill me now. The fun stuff can later I suppose.
January 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM
Dad
2nd day of my “intro to Computing for Business” for an MS, the instuctor asked why I wasn’t teaching the class, I had more experience than her. My DB instructor wanted to know why I was taking a stupid Bus BS instead of IT. As long as managers/HR reps don’t have a clue, they look for buzz-words.
It is worth it to get some of the bs classes out of the way with “Life Experience” equivilants. You might want to look into that. Usually only works for 100-200 series classes, but they are the real waste of time.
Couple trivias: a Chem BS friend got his resume mailed to me because HR was ashamed to submit it the grammer was so bad. An friend with an IT MS (questionably one of the countries top BAL programmers) had to have me tag along to mgmt meetings because he always pissed them off.
A co-worker bitched about a lofting system so much his boss got mad and told him if he was so damn good, why didn’t he write a better program. He did. Then when the IT geeks took it away from him, he didn’t have a degree, he left and took over a group at a rival company as their senior manager with the caveat: no IT geeks allowed. An engineering MS (Bill A) tried to use fiberglass at 30 degress F. Didn’t understand why it wasn’t gelling????? Guess there is education and then there is KNOWLEDGE.
Hey, you so smart, ever boot in octal using the swithes on the front? Now that was COMPUTING. We had 64k!!!!!!!! But, guess what, we got the job done. Hope the New Year goes as well as possible. Happy earlier birthday greetings.
January 3, 2010 at 7:43 PM
icehawk55
As a matter of fact I have. Pththt!
On our old radar system at Campbell we used a 64K computer to put the numerical tags and plots on the radar displays. 8 8k memory boards. A set of Octal switches on the front to get it to boot up to a point it would read a tape to finish booting. If you needed any output it was printed on a teletype machine that was attached.
Old school computing.
FYI. The thing would blow up every electrical storm. It sucked.
January 4, 2010 at 9:55 PM
Skip
My comment about formal education…About a year ago I was told by a customer to put in an application with them. I was emailed the forms, told who to talk to..They really wanted me bad. I jumped through all the hoops to be told I didn’t have enough education.
So I didn’t get the job, and even had to train the guy they did hire. He still doesn’t know half of what I do about their machines and gets paid twice what I do now.
Plain and simple, you need to be able to get your foot in the door and without that little piece of paper it might never happen.